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Where I own up to my bigotry

  • Jul. 18th, 2007 at 1:23 PM
Citation needed
I'm rather amused by this story Pagans angered by temporary Homer next to Cerne Abbas giant. I fear some of my amusement my be due to Paganphobia. To be honest, I'm most amused because the Cerne Abbas giant seems to be a prime example of the pagan vice of insisting that rituals, object, places etc. are ancient despite all evidence to the contrary. (Obviously there are lots of Pagans who don't do this and are happy to admit that their religion is less than 200 years old.) There are no references to the Cerne Abbas giant prior to 1694. Medieval writers referring to the hill that it's on just happen to not mention the fucking great sexually aroused giant. Pagans might claim that there has been a great Christian conspiracy to keep the giant secret but I find that doubtful given that the earliest reference to it is a payment for its recutting in the Cerne Abbas churchwarden's accounts. According to wiki (OK possibly only marginally more reliable than Pagans) it's quite likely that it was created during the English civil war as a rude parody of Oliver Cromwell. So to this very day, otherwise sensible couples think that they'll be more likely to conceive if they have sex on top of a rather rude political cartoon. Surely they could be a lot warmer if they just stayed at home and 'got jiggy' on top of a copy of Private Eye.

I've realised that I'm very ageist when it comes to mumbo jumbo. Talk to me about 16th century kabbalah or the sayings of Sufi prophets or Aborigine cosmology and I'll be rather tolerant about it, possibly even saying something about how we shouldn't mistake our own perspective on the world for objectivity. Talk to me about the kabbalah centre or neo-Paganism or Scientology and I'll roll my eyes. Iranian Baha'is fine; English converts to Baha'i, bit of an eye roll.

Part of it is the way modern mumbo jumbo has an irritating habit of claiming older origins than it actually has but old mumbo jumbo does that too. The Zohar, for example, contains 13th century Spanish syntax and idioms, despite Orthodox kabbalists claiming that it's about 1800 years old.

I think a more reasonable objection is that modern mumbo jumbo has a nasty habit of cultural appropriation. New age types have a habit of tacking ideas from various religions and cultures without paying much attention to the context in which they originated. It's sort of religion lite. A bit like getting a packet of bourbons and only eating the filling. It means they get it all wrong. You can't expect to understand the Zohar if you don't have a thorough knowledge of the Torah and other Jewish texts. You can't understand Eastern philosophy without completely immersing yourself in a system of reasoning that is foreign to the way a Westerner has been taught to think since birth.

I suppose I also have a problem with the kind of people who say things like "How could you possibly believe in the existence of G@d ... but homeopathy must work because it's never been disproved." I could misquote Chesterton at this point.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is. Probably work avoidance.

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Comments

[info]the_alchemist wrote:
Jul. 18th, 2007 01:43 pm (UTC)
It's the neo-pagans who accuse Christians of cultural appropriation that really bother me - not because we're innocent of it, but because they're just as guilty of it.
[info]oedipamaas49 wrote:
Jul. 18th, 2007 02:33 pm (UTC)
Actually, I quite approve of people picking the bits that suit them out of whatever religions they run into. Especially when they're honest enough to admit to it, as many of the smarter pagans are. If the filling is the best bit, why bother with the rest of the biscuit?

It's not just 'modern mumbo-jumbo' that claims stupidly old origins. The ancient religions that new-agers distort are themselves often equally bizarre distortions of even more ancient religions. (*)

This probably all only makes sense because I believe:
a) all religions are bunk, but if it's bunk that makes people behave morally and be content then I'm all in favour
b) religions don't transfer well across cultures. You can't completely follow the practices of the ancient religions without being in the right context. So everybody cherrypicks the bits that fit with their existing beliefs, and if you're doing that you may as well go the whole way and invent a religion that works for you.

(*) At least, this is true for the Indian religions. It's probably slightly less true elsewhere
[info]naath wrote:
Jul. 18th, 2007 02:37 pm (UTC)
I'm not quite sure why Moses saying "I had a vision of God in a burning bush" or Mohammed saying "I had this book dictated to me by Allah" is believable but Crowley saying "I had a vision and was told this information" is inherently less believable.

It makes people happy, it gives them something to do... I don't see why it makes any *less* sense than anything else they might decide to do.
[info]lavendersparkle wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2007 03:06 pm (UTC)
This is why I think I just have an irrational ageism when it comes to mumbo-jumbo.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 18th, 2007 10:39 pm (UTC)
Rob says...
Remind me never *ever* to touch Alec's copy of Private Eye
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 19th, 2007 10:30 pm (UTC)
Re: Rob says...Alec replies
Please don't mention my private eye on the internet, Robert. It will create all kinds of disturbing image search results in the minds of children everywhere.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 19th, 2007 03:08 am (UTC)
English Baha'is
As far as english converts to Baha'i and eye rolls, I would remem we two things. One, the Baha'i faith is as English as it is Persian since its early history is highly intertwined with Persia, the ottoman empire, Britain,Canada ,and the USA. Secondly, it's founder took great pains to establish it as a world religion, not a regional or cultural one, so it's not big on the cultural appropriation. Thirdly, its currently 60% african and indian by population, with he remainder split etween Persians, euros/americans, and everyone else. Iranians are now a strong but acknowledged minority.

Lastly, of all religions, it's the one with the least prediliction for grasping at ancient roots in the sense you mean. It's by far the most modern and rational religion I have ever encountered. Otherwise, I can relate.

Warmest,
A closet-Bahá'í.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 20th, 2007 02:33 pm (UTC)
An English Baha'i convert writes...
I don't think I've caused "a bit of an eye roll" merely by being an English Baha'i, as opposed to being any other nationality and being a Baha'i. Other reasons, for sure, but not this.

Anyway, when I became a Baha'i in 1966 (ex-Church of England) I was responding to the universality and modernity of the Baha'i teachings. No requirements to wear beards (I have a beard for reasons of personal vanity), robes, funny hats; no taking of Persian names; fact, no cultural pick'n'mix at all. My way of being a Baha'i is really rather English, but it is a wholehearted response to the entirety of the faith.

Although I don't read or speak Arabic or Persian, I have a pretty good understanding of the historical, cultural and religious context in which the Baha'i Faith arose and how its spread from Iran to pretty much every other part of the world took place.